'Boquete - Montanas de Caldera vs. Los Molinos' Boquete

Boquete - Montanas de Caldera vs. Los Molinos

I saw a few mentions of the development Montanas de Calderas. Has anyone been to or had dealings with the development Los Molinos? I would be interested in a comparison of the two. Any info/opinions would be helpful.

Thanks, Katie

Now for a few things you really need to concern yourself with: One is the water issue. Montanas has its own state of the art water supply and you are never without power. Unlike most other places in the Boquete area where you could be without power for several days.

In our research and many trips down there, we decided on buying in Montanas. Knowledgeable people running the project. Jane and her Father have been in this business for many years and know the ropes. They have built several communities throughout the world. John Richardson is a wonderful man and he and Jane go out of their way to make you happy. We have changed our house plans many times, with no issues.

We love to go to Molinos for a cocktail or glass of wine. The bar has a great view. We have tried to strike up conversation with the residents to no avail. The families in Montanas have opened their arms to us and go out of their way to be friendly. We will be there permanently the beginning of 2011.

If you want to know about the places, go to Boquete and ask around town about the two. That's what we did and hands down, all thought Montanas was a class project. John has done a lot for the community as well as Jane. Both donate time and money to the local projects. Hope this helps..

Re the houses both developments have there problems, both with security and build quality, we also found that Caldera only has its own water supply and once this runs out it would be an issue , especially as there are so may omes planned there.

In al;l honesty I do not belive either development delivers what they promise and I would advise to proceed with any sale with caution

Infrastructure is better here, underground utilities, underground drainage systems (no open ditches) and everything is designed to international standards; just an example is the electric system of the community, all the cables are imported from the US and have 80 years guarantee. Transformers are also imported from the US, so none of those usual voltage fluctuations, that is so typical here, even the cable for the inside of the houses is imported from US.

The quality of construction here is simply the best in the area and anybody can testify to that, in fact, there are some engineers, architects and building inspectors (retired as me) living or building here, and the reason we purchased here initially was because of the quality.

They do back up what they say. The roof tiles, floor and wall tiles are imported from Spain and a lot of the other finishes are imported directly from the US, so they are able to maintain the quality product throughout. Containers arrive on a regular basis from abroad.

Most of the people think that there is just one spring here for water supply, what if I say that there are 14 just in one area of the community and nobody told me, I went down there and took a look for myself. There are so many springs there that 3 villages Caldera, Macano and El Frances take the water for their aqueduct from here and I have seen this too. Panama is a country blessed with water and Mdc is lucky to have so many natural springs available and the right systems in place to deliver this potable water to the homes.

Caution is a good advice here or anywhere you should do the research and ask the proper questions as you are doing and also we did. Please come and take a look for yourself.

I appreciate that we have lots of questions but be assured that we plan on visiting the country and the area before we make any final decisions. If you can find the time to respond we would be very grateful.

On return to our home, we have decided that another trip to the area is needed before making a final decision.

Sorry it took so long to answer as I have been very very busy at work. I will try to answer some of your questions.

If you have a model in mind, which one is it? yes you can modify all models and Jane Davis and her Dad John Richardson are very accomodating. Tell Jane that you were in contact with Mike and Darlene and they will make sure they will answer all your questions. If you want to send me your email address, I will see to it that they contact you. We added extra footage to our bedroom and extended the patio out as well. We are putting a pool in our back yard. The building stage in just beginning as we had a problem with selling our home here in the U.S. The market was very poor for a very long time.

In order to let you know how long it takes, I must ask if you are financing or paying cash. The reason is the bank approval can be a slow process. But I can advise on how to make it a little easier if you are financing. (what to have ready, what paperwork to order, ect. ect.)

Let me know what lots you are interested in and I can give you my opinion. I have a map and all the information on the project here at home.

If we can exchange emails or if you have a phone number where to reach you, I will give you a call. I try to answer most questions within this forum so the others reading can benefit from it. Again, sorry it took so long to respond.

We really appreciate your response. We have been dealing (via e-mail) with Cesar at Montanas and he has been very helpful to this point.

We are looking at the Santa Lucia model. We have been thinking about enlarging the patio and the possibility of adding a pool - could you give us some idea of the additional cost involved?

We will be financing at least a portion of the purchase price so anything you can tell us about this process will be greatly appreciated.

Finally (at least for now) we it would be very helpful if you could suggest lots in areas in the development that would offer the best views and access to the other amenities on the property.

You can reach us at bren105@charter.net. We will also look at this forum as frequently as possible.

Thanks you

John

I am soooooo glad you are talking to Cesar!!! He is fabulous. Be sure to tell him that you and I (Mike and Darlene) are talking. My husband and I love that young man. He is very honest and he will go out of his way for you. The whole staff at Montanas are the best people in the world to deal with. Can you tell that we are very impressed with them???? I am a business women, working in investments here in the U.S. and I can tell you that the type of service they give is top notch. My husband and I look forward to our retirement at Montanas.

We have made many trips down there and we just got back in May and will be going again in Jan. or Feb. I have lots to tell you to make your transition an easy one. How many trips have you made, if any? I am at my office now, it's early and the stock market just opened, so I am unable to continue. I will email you over the week-end at the address you gave me and will start the process of explaining. Sooooooo much tell. Also, if you will answer this post and let me know if you have been down there or if you are planning a trip, as I have lots of info to make the trip less expensive and places to stay and places to eat that are great. Until this week-end......

Regards

P.S. The addition of 4 feet on the bedroom and 12 tiled feet on the patio cost us under $2, 000. Also let me know what price range you want in lot so I can choose several within your price range.

We have not made any trips yet but are beginning to plan a trip before the end of this year and then again either February or March 2011. I am planning to retire in July or August of 2011. Although Cesar sent us some lot selections, we have not had a chance to really look at them vs the plot plan which he has sent to us.. we were thinking about the perimeter of the prop with the woods in the back of us, but we just wont really know until we are actually there to see it all..

we will look forward to your next email and then go from there, by that time, we will try to review what Cesar has suggested and send you our thoughts..

thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us, we really appreciate all you have done for us.

have a great weekend

John

People on the canyon lots being promised that the roads would be finished and sealed for over 2 years and still not done.

Water being turned off at the weekends.

Club house not started after being promised it would be over 4 years ago.

One couple on the canyon edge had their whole garden and swimming pool destroyed by a mudslide from adjoining lots after the developer graded the land incorrectly. When they brought this to the attention of the developer he refused to take responsibiluity or help them out in anyway. People who bought a townhouse actually got delivered the wrong ubnit and they were toldn that there was nothing they could do.

After hearing all this I done some further research on there previous developments and could not find any evidence of them developing in either Florida or the Cayman Islands as they claim to have done.

Overall it was enough to make me change my mind.

I would suggest proceeding with caution if at all.

First let me start by saying that you have not been given all the facts. I too have talked to the same people you have referred to. But instead of taking their word for it, I went to the developer and other residents and got their side of the story. Then I made my decision based on both sides of the story. I suggest that you do the same. Details of the events you mentioned aren't exactly accurate. I don't know if you have ever built a home on your own piece of land or in a development. My husband and I have done both here in the states and I can tell you that the process is not a problem free process. Any building of a new home, anywhere in the world comes with a few ups and downs. It's how those ups and downs are handled that make all the difference. In our MANY conversations with the other residents they made the statement, quote: "Some people are never happy unless they have something to BIT-H about." Also, "Some people would BIT-H if they were hung by a NEW rope." As you know, in life, some people are never happy no matter what you do for them.

I can tell you that 99% of the residents that we have talked to are glad they live there. Now to touch base on what stage they are at in completion. Have you taken into consideration the economics of the world?? This world is in a state of total economic turmoil. We have spent the last 2 to 3 years not knowing if we as a nation (world) were going to recover. I can tell you that when my husband and I decided to move to Panama, we came home (U.S.) thinking we would be able to sell our home in a month on two and be on our way. It took over 2 years and a loss of $135, 000 before the sale. It is no wonder that the project has slowed down. (and I don't think it has) Show me one country that has not been effected by the current economy and I will show you 30 who have. People have to sell their homes in their native land and have to make changes in their bank accounts due to loss of income, and loss in 401K's and other retirement plans. I personally think the project is moving right along. We were down there in May and were amazed at how much had been done since the last time we were there.

Please go to the developer and ask questions. Don't go with accusations. (defined by Merriam-Webster as "A charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.)

If you have specific questions, I check this site a couple times a week. Or just email Montanas as well.

We wonder "Wayne" are you writing under a pseudonym?

You are entitled to yours and I am entitled to mine.

I have formed my opinion based on the 2 sides of the storey, the one from the developers and the other from actual residents.I did not make these things up and I know the people who told me them did not either.

In relation to your questions I have not taken into account the economics of the world as this was not relevent to my decision making process. I just was not happy with what I say and heard there.

Now do not get me wrong, I am not saying I spoke to every resident and I a sure as you have said that there are happy residents there as there are happy and sad residents everywhere, I just did not meet any maybe we spoke to different ones. It very easy to say that the unhappy ones are just bitching but to be honest people generally do not bitch unless they have something to bitch about.

Now about your accusations comment, accusations. (defined by Merriam-Webster as "A charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.)Thank you for the definition.

The above is not accuasations, it is the feedback from actual residents. Wheather it is illegal to promise infrastructure and deliver many years later, to turn off water at weekends, to grading land that results in destroying another residents property and not fixing the damage can only be defined by the laws of Panama. Wheather it is wrong. In my opinion yes , in yours maybe not. Would these incidents influence my decision to purchase? Yes. Would it influence yours? I don`t know.Possibly not. Would I share these opinions? Yes. Would you share yours?From your email. Yes. And guess what you are entitled to do so.

Overall this blog was started by people trying to weigh up the pros and cons of buying in Montanas de Caldera as opposed to buying in Los Molinos.Personally, My opinion , which I think you will have to agree I am entitled to is that I would not feel confortable buying a lot and having any developer build for me. Why you may ask or not ask as you wish but I will tell you or anybody else who wants to hear . From all the feedback that I have got, and it has been extensive, no developer in Panama delivers exactly what the client pays for or expects.I have not heard one story where the client is as happy with a pre-construction purchase in Panama aas they would have being in the U.S.and there is little or no comeback against the developer no matter what the contract says , the courts take too long ( around 2 to 3 years at best) arbitration costs around $40, 000. Neither of these 2 optuions can realisticly be taken by a person trying to have a home delivered and having paid stage payments , the developers know this and can play the waiting game.

My humble advice, I say humble because I do not see much humility in your email, is for anybody who wants to purchase to purchae what is already there ie. a constructed home and expect what you see. If there is a gravel road. Expect to have a gravel road for the foreseeable future, if there is no clubhouse. Count on there not being one. Buy what you see not what is promised.

Now back to what was the original stream of this blog, a comparison between the 2 developemnts if there was a constructed home in either development for sale and the quality and was right and the road was paved and I was happy with the infrastructure, clubhouse and swimming pool in Los Molinos, none in Montanas de Caldera etc. I would weigh up the odds and then it would all come down to price.I think this is a rational approach.

Would I buy pre-construction off either developer? Not in a million years.

In answer to your final question am I using a pseudonym? No nothing so exotic, just an old guy with too much time on his hands.If I was to use one I think I would go for something a little more exotic.

After 14 rounds of brutal combat, it's still a draw. We need one more round to determine the Champeen. Give it your best shot!

One side giving an opinion and the other getting a little excited due to their commitment to their developer.How sweet.

Let`s see if this commitment waynes when their home has being delivered. 6 months time when they are sitting there on a Saturday with the wrong doors , wrong color countertops garden full of mudslide waiting for Monday to flush the toilets deciding if they want to drive over a mile of gravel to go to town for lunch will Dar and her lovely husband be singing the praises Montanas de Caldera.Let`s see.

Time will tell.

This is my favourite piece,

Have you taken into consideration the economics of the world?? This world is in a state of total economic turmoil. We have spent the last 2 to 3 years not knowing if we as a nation (world) were going to recover. I can tell you that when my husband and I decided to move to Panama, we came home (U.S.) thinking we would be able to sell our home in a month on two and be on our way. It took over 2 years and a loss of $135, 000 before the sale. It is no wonder that the project has slowed down. (and I don't think it has)

No wonder the project has slowed down even though it hasn`t. Maybe she would like to give a Merriam Webster definition of this.

I´m Cesar From MdC.

Just to clarify, this office is open to all of you that want to come and ask the questions you want. But please, don´t comment on a place you have never visited.

Can I describe a house if I have never seen it?

Yes, I can but, that description won´t be accurate, right?

Anyway I won´t get into a confrontation here, this is the only post I´ll do because somebody will write that I´m defending my job. Well yes, I am but WITH THE TRUTH.

As I said above come to visit and let me show you what we do here, ask the questions you want to ask and let us answer.

We are here every day from 9-5 so, look forward to seeing you. The proof is here for you to see.

I decided to do a little investigating on my own. I believe Wayne has a grudge. I don't care what he says. To be so passionate about his negative opinion of MDC is a little suspicious to me. As an outsider, I commend Dar for not being insulting. As an Attorney, Dar can sit at my table anytime. She presented a very good case and stuck to facts she knew to be true...........

Jane Davis here.

Well. Well. Well. Wayne and John Brant. How are you both?

You have both been writing e-mails to Montanas for a while now. Cesar and I both suspected that you were the same person, who already has a vested interest in Los Molinos and of course the other Project in Boquete, which never really got off the ground.

John Brant and Wayne, seems that your IP Address’s both originate from Dublin, Ireland. Are you neighbors? Same City in Ireland and yet you act as if you don’t know each other. Coincidence???????

Your claims are without merit and farcical.

Stay tuned more to follow.

1. Are you always such a negative person?

2. These people you talked to, how did you get in contact with them?

3. How many times have you been to MDC to compare the completion stages?

4. Why did they shut the water off?

I went on line and found public records that have the water system they have built at that development and in my opinion found it to be state of the art for Panama. I also found out that the town of Boquete can be without power and water for several days in a bad storm.

I think Dar sounds more creditable. You go girl. And I am going down in November and will check it out for myself. I will be looking up Cesar to have a nice chat. Thank you Dar for your great insite. I will also talk to the residents. As MANY as I can.

The further away you are the more difficult it will be in both situations, but much more so for building on your own. Do you think you can manage workers from a continent away (be they in the USA or someplace else)?

I think the only sensible thing for first time buyers, not familiar with a country (ie: hasn't lived there full time for several years) is to buy a place that is ready to move into. So you can clearly see what, if any issues exist before you've put a penny down.

I would even go a step further and suggest you don't buy at all, until you've rented and lived in an area for a couple years. At that time you'll be well acquainted with projects, properties, neighborhoods, etc.

Back to the debate, I wonder if anyone involved in the debate is actually living in and posting from Panama?

I have been once to Boquete (Febr 10) and surrounding areas, going again in November...I`m seriously thinking of retiring in the area in 2, 3 yrs. I will come visit a few more times before making my final decision.

I`m an Architect , working for a large US home builder (no 24 in the country), we built 3, 000 homes/yr 2 years ago, this year about 1, 000...and being in this position I can tell you that everything has slowed, because of the economy , not just in Texas or US but even so in Panama....esp. in areas where retirees are going , as many cannot or have been slowed in selling their homes here, are less apt to buy there...and that impacts the local developers. If less income from sales , things slow down...developers dont have magic pockets, they can only spend money they take in for the most part...thats why things i Boquete area are slower now = raods not built/finished as fast etc, ..when things pick up here, they will there.

I`ve been to both Montanas and Los Molinos , including other areas as Boquete Country Club , Valle Escondido etc ...my concern is not that nmuch of construction as I saw most as being in good quality, but more of a 'location'/ climate type....personally I liked Montanas better, for the location, for style and views. Valle E is great but more money....Los Molinas was hotter/warmer than Monatanas when I visited even though temps stay fairly steady..to me thats an important factor too as I`m trying to get away from Hot summers here in Houston...

I`ve also visited with Cesar and found him to be very informative and knowledgable...I trust what he says. I may buy an older home IN Boquete, I may buy up a little higher than Montanas, but if I decide on that area, the 'plains' on the way to Boquete, Montanas would be my pick.

Just my professional opinion , coming from the construction industry

We decided to purchase in MdC. The climate at that altitude was right for us. The view from the development is beautiful. We liked the style of their homes. We looked over houses in various stages of construction and those already completed. We were more impressed by the quality of the construction at MdC than anywhere else. Discussions with those already living there confirmed this impression. The MdC staff was very personable and willing to modify the plans to customize our home. Throughout the process they were quite helpful with the myriad decisions involved.

No doubt being present during building is ideal. Unfortunately, our jobs prevented us from doing this. We decided that we could reasonably put our trust in the MdC organization. Jane Davis emailed pictures to us of the progress every week or two. We occasionally spotted mistakes or modifications we wanted to make. Jane and her staff took care of all such matters promptly.

Our home in Montanas de Caldera was completed this past July, one year after work commenced. We stayed there last month. We are delighted with how our residence has turned out. We look forward to living there for many years.

The MdC development does have a ways to go. As Mr.Sefeldt points out, developments depend upon ongoing sales in order to afford all the planned amenities and to become a thriving community. We believe, especially given the global economic crisis, that MdC is off to a good start.

No one housing option is right for everyone. Thankfully there are many possibilities in the Boquete area. I recommend visiting as many as you can including MdC.

We encourage everyone to share their opinions, comments, thoughts and information, please consider sharing...

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